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Re: what is the definition of evil?
Sat, December 16, 2006 - 10:12 AMtake your definition of good
stick it in a mirror
just like that -
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Re: what is the definition of evil?
Sun, December 17, 2006 - 1:16 AMI like it. This mirror.
Perhaps it's the idea that we know something in the first place that inspires us to make a decision based on that knowledge. Often false knowledge.
Like the mind becoming fixed on an outside form and making it happen no-matter-what, regardless of the internal conditions; or what's actually going on in your environment.
Whether dancing, "loving," working, playing . . .
I think that evil does not exist. Remember Nietzsche? Pearls? Buddha?
Neither does good.
Only DEFINITIONS of what we like or dislike.
This is hard to say when considering politics or history. Some actions are truly evil in my eyes. But those people who performed those actions did not act out of evil intentions. They truly believed that what they were doing was good. And these were/are the worst actions ever performed.
Look into a mirror indeed. But do not think that it is evil. Only realize that your "good" is a thought. Brain activity based on personal history, environment, and genetics. -
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Re: what is the definition of evil?
Wed, December 20, 2006 - 4:42 PMyour comments likewise provoke many questions in me-soul:
<Perhaps it's the idea that we know something in the first place that inspires us to make a decision based on that knowledge. Often false knowledge. >
what/whom makes the distinction between true and false knowledge?
is this where the illusion arises,
in the belief of the fixed ideal rather than the knowledge itself,
whether true false or inbetween?
if good and evil do not exist except in one's perception,
then do not true and false as well?
superior and inferior?
light and darkness?
male and female?
black and white?
high and low?
what is the evolutionary purpose of duality?
and when/where does one choose to let it go?
(whether individually and/or collectively)
and if now, then how?
is this butoh?
a dance to discover the way between/beyond the polarities?
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Re: what is the definition of evil?
Sat, December 23, 2006 - 5:43 PMWhy is this question thrown in here into the Butoh dicussion thread?
Dear poster, you are mixing up many things that create teh complexity of our life - work, play, knowledge, intention - and then try to work out a simple resolution. "Good" is a thought? Do you think there are no truly evil-intentioned acts? Is all "brain activity"? Is this a butohist answer?
I think there are evil acts. They are acts that are aimed at and successful in diminishing or destroying value. One such value being life.
The question of whether there are evil beings was logically difficult because if evil is part of being then it cannot be destroying being. -
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why evil?
Tue, December 26, 2006 - 4:00 PM< Why is this question thrown in here into the Butoh dicussion thread? >
< I think there are evil acts. They are acts that are aimed at and successful in diminishing or destroying value. One such value being life. >
dear thomas, if you would agree that butoh was at least partially inspired by the events at hiroshima and nagaski, two acts that destroyed more value (at least in life) quicker than any prior (and as of yet future) acts in human history, then you may have answered your own question.
my question back is this: would your definition also fit acts of non-human nature?
like a hurricane? or an asteroid hitting the earth? or a dying star?
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Re: why evil?
Wed, December 27, 2006 - 9:01 PMThanks for leading me on.
Of course non-human causes of destruction of value are not evil but they are tragic. They underscore the tragedy of our impermanence, of our fleeting and tenuous connection with being. Despite the Hiroshima attacks arising from human intentions and contributing to the rise of butoh - this art is indeed more concerned and more expressive of the tragedy of existence than of ethical content of human acts.
When you had god out there in charge of nature then you might charge him with condoning, and even sponsoring like in the book of Job, evil. Voltaire used that charge to refute his existence. But when god is not there the tsunamis merely remind us of the fragility of life. Even acts of war, definitely human in origin, when its chariots are once set in motion, seem like natural cataclysms. -
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Re: why evil?
Thu, December 28, 2006 - 3:58 PMlikewise, thanks for taking the bait.
what i personally choose to believe is so wonderful about butoh is that it can hold space for both themes, as well as uncovering the limitations of each one in kind, i.e. seeing the comedy within the tragedy or discovering the cosmic urge behind the ethical.
as such, both our personal outlooks are equally valid, as well as everyone elses.
perhaps the importance in the dance is in the questions, rather than the answers...
cheers~~
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Re: what is the definition of evil?
Thu, December 21, 2006 - 5:32 PMSome might say "evil is what harms me" - but the word seems to come from a derivation of the name of Eve, so I try to use it trickily. Almost always, when I employ the word "evil" I'm playing some kind of sneaky trick with words on someone. If you credit the "Eve" root, then "evil" simply might mean "knowing Knowledge" - but one assumes it means "Defying God". Well, fuck that, I say. God can suck it.
Perhaps I'm wicked.
Today, I dance the dance of rheumatoid arthritis, and sing "IT'S YOUR FAULT, GOD" even as I giggle at the thought of some cosmic sky-thing pushing little apes around on its blue ball, surely, one of billions to play with. So, "WHY ME DAMMIT GOD" and this thing, this abstract "God" I've apparently defied says "why not? who else? suffer, ape, HAHAHAAAAAA" and I dance, for its pleasure, until I can't dance anymore. -
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adam-antly eve-l
Tue, December 26, 2006 - 4:54 PMdear loki,
i recently picked up a $2 copy of nietzche's beyond good & evil after being inspired by this thread.
after reading your response, i opened up the book to a random page and found this at the top:
interlude 116. The great epochs of our life come when we gain the courage to rechristen our evil as what is best in us.
so even if you are wicked, you have at least one dance partner....cheers. -
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Re: adam-antly eve-l
Wed, December 27, 2006 - 6:39 AMHsaaaaaah!!!!
i flourish and twitch
i cede you the stage with unintended convulsive grace
and await the next act -
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Re: adam-antly eve-l
Thu, December 28, 2006 - 3:46 PMaaahhhaaahh!
no need to cede amigo.
there is plenty of room on the stage for all of us.
-- past present & future --
for this can be a collective dance no?
but like u, i await the next act --
the one of transcendence and inclusion....
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Re: adam-antly eve-l
Mon, January 1, 2007 - 10:54 AM> $2 copy of nietzche's beyond good & evil after being inspired by this thread
If you wish to bring Nietzsche into the argument, I suggest "Towards a Genealogy of Morals." Note that it is a rather subversive text as he is taking some of the common prejudices of his era and turning them inside out. So some of the passages may be hard to stomach for the modern reader. Nietzsche is interested in how we call some things "good" and other things "evil", how they come to be viewed as opposites, and how we value one over the other-- not in stating "this is good and that is evil" and delineating the difference between the two.
That said, much scientific research into morality, indicates that the basis of what we call moral behavior stems from the ability to feel empathy. People who lack the ability to feel empathy (for apparently organic reasons) are classified as "psychopaths." Of course the question becomes: are they evil or merely amoral? -
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Re: Good and Knievel
Fri, February 16, 2007 - 12:48 AMIt doesn't matter.
For my needs - they're thoroughly bad. Whether they're amoral or "truly" evil is undiscoverable - the data is available only by interpretation and inference - if 'evil' is meaning 'malicious intent to cause harm' then they're evil by wanting to remain alive.
This will be my first Eructation of the Dance of Fairness, in celebration of the lot of the psychopath. It's invisible. It would be a very sad dance - if psychopaths could feel sadness.
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Re: what is the definition of evil?
Fri, December 22, 2006 - 11:07 AMThat would be the ego!
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Re: what is the definition of evil?
Fri, December 22, 2006 - 3:03 PMThere is no evil;
Most of the time, what gets considered as evil is actually merely the horrified realization that someone managed to come up with a wrinkle that the person reacting just hadn't yet thought of.
Beyond that, what occurs tends towards merely someone being really, really, idiotic, often while claiming that idiocy is desirable, regardless of what will happen when the other shoe drops.
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Re: what is the definition of evil?
Sun, December 24, 2006 - 3:47 PMSeperation From Spirit.....this is the closest definition to my observations thus far.
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Re: what is the definition of evil?
Mon, February 19, 2007 - 6:08 PMHmmmm....perhaps being so identified with the 'social skin' that we loose, or have lost sight of the 'other one' and become IGNORANT and severed from nature!
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Re: what is the definition of evil?
Thu, March 1, 2007 - 1:09 PMEvil is a definition!
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Re: what is the definition of evil?
Tue, May 8, 2007 - 10:52 PMevil is made up by those who promote it..simple!
